Helions

Well if light doesn't have mass then how come it can't escape the gravitational pull of a black whole. why does the Earths gravitational affect its path.

I support your argument.

but it's not really pulling...it has to do with the curvature of space...isn't this a bit obvious?

Yes a law of physics causes it to happen. Such as a ball falls to the Earth this is because the law of gravity causes it to happen.

 

Laws are like your superior being, as we find out we find out how the universe works then we make it a law. We know the ball will not fall up because of the law.

Now when you respond please respond with some evidence that supports your theory, and no something that just discredits mine, then I will be impressed.

 

P.S. check out my website awsomejoe23.heliohost.org/cms

Do you have one? I hope so.

i'm not here to try and impress you...and i don't discredit your evidence, i discredit things you say that make no sense...i don't want you to try and impress me either, although i know you're trying very hard to do so...

you're right that the laws of physics are causes for the way things works...but you're wrong when you say that laws are like a superior being...the laws of physics are sets of rules that the world goes by...it's not hard to see that these laws must have been designed by someone or something to work the way they do...

i could put you in a room with nothing but a bowl and a button on the wall...let's say you had no idea who put you there or why you're there...obviously, you're going to press the button on the wall sooner or later...and when you do, the bowl will fill up with blood...you'll think to yourself, "oh, so when i press this button, the dish will fill with blood.." you can do it as many times as you want, and you'll always get the same results...

if i put someone else in the room with you...you'll tell them, "hey, if you press this button, the bowl will fill with blood..."

the other guy will ask, "why does it fill with blood when you press the button?"

you will say, "i don't know, but it works that way...you can press the button and you will see that the bowl fills with blood."

you won't be able to answer why it happens that way, but it's because i set it up that way...i designed it that way...

now aside from that...when i say supreme being, higher power, higher being, god, etc...i have a feeling that you're picturing in your mind, some person doing magic tricks or something...this isn't what i'm trying to show you...when i say that there is a higher power, i mean that there is a supreme cause...

a supreme cause...think about it...something/someone/anything that caused everything that we know to happen...you can't say that the laws of physics caused everything to happen because there must have been a supreme cause for the laws of physics...you can call this supreme cause anything you want...generally, people call this supreme cause "god," but since this is confusing for you, i'll continue to use the phrase "supreme cause."

if you want to continue debating and take this to a higher level, then you really are going to have to think about this before posting again...you will have to understand cause and effect...it's no fun if you're still stuck on this concept when i'm trying to take you to higher level...

O.K. but provide me with some evidence when you post. Not just some gut feeling.

continued in "is there a God?"...

Obviously you are 100% correct, but don't ask me to just give me yes or no answers if you are not willing to answer them yourself. HAHA

 

answer this...does something that happens have a cause?

For the most part yes but in physics we have found that some things do tend to happen at random.

you didn't answer me with just a simple yes or no, so i didn't either...you tried to disprove me with a question...

anyways, even if something happens at random, there is always a cause...things happen for a reason...for example, you can't tell exactly how a smoke particle will move in the air...it moves randomly for the most part...but just because someone can't figure out why it moves randomly doesn't mean that something isn't causing it to move randomly..

so do we agree now that everything that happens has a cause? i severely doubt that you'd disagree now...

No

 

Now answer this, what if a insane person kills someone for for no reason, does it have a cause? yes or no?

cause and effect is something you learn early in life...take a step back and think before you post...

a person kills someone because he has a reason...if a person kills someone without reason, then we can assume the person is insane...what was the cause of the insane person killing someone? his insanity...

do you understand that?

if you can't, then i'm just wasting my time debating with someone who has a misunderstanding of how the world proceeds...in that case, i'll just stop responding to your posts in this topic and wait for someone who can actually carry on intelligently...

answer this...does something that happens have a cause? yes or no...nothing else

You are the hardheaded one to think that some thing created the universe when there is indisputably evidence that that a thing did not create the universe.

 

i feel that you're purposefully just trying your hardest not to understand...this debate can't go anywhere until you understand this concept

You want me to understand the concept then please provide me with some evidence. The only thing you have been able to provide for me is that I should be able to somehow feel that a supreme thing created the universe.

let's stop posting in this section and continue in the other one...

physics can be thought of as a design or a mechanism for the way things work

 

Physics is the way things work.

 

you're still thinking inside the box, when I've shown you, countless times, what you can see outside the box...

 

 

Maybe there are other universes are out of our universe.

I could always think like you, and in that case,

 

We are a drop of water that a big giant dude made so that he could just so he could watch us(I would of just gotten a T.V) to see what we do.

 

So lets think outside of the box here. what is outside of the box? Just a god, or a place with unlimited candy? O, and I'm sure Santa lives in the north pole to.

yea debating is fun, but the way you are going about it is making me respect you less and less with every post you write...

i'm going to stop replying to anything you write that makes no sense or just isn't relevant...maybe that'll stop you...

"physics is the way things work..." okay, let's take this slowly so you can understand perfectly...dont answer anything but this question that i'm about to ask you..and answer is concisely, without all the irrelevant mumbo jumbo that you add onto every post you write...

things work because they are designed to work that way, right? just yes or no...nothing else...

i can see you didn't really understand my answer...my answer was that god created the universe...if you ask who created god, i will say, god created god...if you asked who created god that created god, then i will say that god created god that created god....and so on and so forth...basically, there was a beginning, and that beginning always points to god...

 

you answer is that the universe didn't ever begin...your answer is that there was never a cause...

 

O, but the contrary, the big bang was made from a big bang, and that big bang was formed from earlier big bang.

 

Same answer, just mine is suggested by science and fact, yours is suggested from folklore and gut instinct.

not only are you hardheaded and stubborn, but you seem to be very illogical...it's obvious that you can say a process caused a process...but something or someone, that is not a process, needs to have started that process...it's not that hard of a concept...i feel that you're purposefully just trying your hardest not to understand...this debate can't go anywhere until you understand this concept...that everything has a cause...

It was caused, I think, by the placing of Helionet on a site that reviews web hosting sites.

 

You can put a good word in for helionet here http://www.free-webhosts.com/reviews/HelioHost.php

oh cool...that's how i found heliohost in the first place...

My "supreme power" is physics. What caused the big bang is is the repulsion of atoms, think of it like a very big supernova. "it's obvious that it's way too hard for you to understand if i put it any other way"

physics can be thought of as a design or a mechanism for the way things work...so who or what was the designer? you're still thinking inside the box, when i've shown you, countless times, what you can see outside the box...

Now if you are trying to ask me where the when the universe first began, my answer is the same answer as to the your answer to when was god created, it was always there.

i can see you didn't really understand my answer...my answer was that god created the universe...if you ask who created god, i will say, god created god...if you asked who created god that created god, then i will say that god created god that created god....and so on and so forth...basically, there was a beginning, and that beginning always points to god...

you answer is that the universe didn't ever begin...your answer is that there was never a cause...

obviously, not the same answer...

you're still not understanding...from the way you argue, i can tell that maybe you just aren't intelligent enough to understand...

even processes, such as the Big Bang, must have a cause...would it be easier for your mind to understand if i called the higher power a "supreme cause?" it's obvious that it's way too hard for you to understand if i put it any other way...

my arguments on everything having a cause and all the examples i've posted should have been enough evidence...you failed to show me any relevant evidence on your side...the only evidence you showed that had any relevance was the rain eroding water, and the bacteria splitting, and the tides on earth...and even at that, they weren't even properly supporting your argument...

why don't you take your own signature and put it to use? put some thought and grammar into your posts...

what happened on Jan 8 2007? anything special? and how can we recreate that?

you can try to tell me all the mechanisms and processes of the universe, but that still doesn't do anything for me...i've learned all that plus more in school...what you need to understand is that, logically, everything that happens must have a cause...once you understand that, we can take this debate to a higher level..

p.s. this is fun, ain't it?

Good points!

 

 

Water rains on the rock, the rock erodes. No one eroded the rock.

 

A bacteria splits. no one made the new bacteria.

 

The tides rise and fall. No one makes this happen.

 

So no [bleeped!] people make things, but some things(like a mountain, or the universe) were not made by anyone.

 

Now stop beating around the bush and reply to my last post.

 

Also TELL ME WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN

the reason i said "wasn't there a higher being who/that created it" is because a higher being can be someone or something...

water rains on the rock, the rock erodes...no one eroded the rock, but something(the rain) did...

a bacteria splits, no one made the new bacteria..but the process of reproduction did create the new bacteria...

the tides rise and fall. no one makes this happen..but the moon makes it happen...

what i was trying to prove was that everything must have a cause...not that an actual person had to create everything...

now you should stop beating around the bush and tell me exactly why you can't or don't want to understand this simple concept...

hat there must have been a higher being, whether or not the higher being was created by another higher being

So you your not monotheistic, you think their is an infinite amount of gods? What do you believe in? You still have not answered this question.

 

don't you forget, your belief only begins at the Big Bang

 

Um, no I believe that that that is a process in the expanding and contracting of our universe ( its proven our universe is expanding and contracting). The big bang is just a reference of the time in which the universe had contracted to an a finite point, and then began rapidly expanding due to a "big bang, hence the name.

 

P.S. really what are your beliefs, it's really hard to debate against some one when you don't know what you're trying to prove.

god is generally believed to be a higher power, a supreme perfect being, a creator...whatever you want to call it...to me, god is the beginning of all things...

you're right about the Big Bang, but still, it doesn't explain where the finite point or everything from the expansion came from...you're telling me to look further back in time, but i've looked as far back as the beginning...you still seem to be looking at the beginning and turning your head away...

P.S. i believe there must have been a higher power...but as we've both pointed out, neither of us will be able to prove it...

you're using a browser...wasn't there a programmer who programmed it?

you see a painting...wasn't there a painter who painted it?

you look at your clothing...wasn't there a designer who designed it?

you live in a building...wasn't there an architect who planned it?

you look at the universe........wasn't there a higher being who/that created it?

what i am trying to explain is that there must be some explanation for the creation of our universe...there must have been a beginning...

you should try answering your question yourself...do you think a higher being could spontaneously generate? i know your answer will probably be no, else this debate would be over...so where did it generate from? from "something" or "someone" right? no matter how far back you want to take this, you will always reach that conclusion...that there must have been a higher being, whether or not the higher being was created by another higher being...

don't you forget, your belief only begins at the Big Bang...

How long will it take to validate a banner supported account?

Are you allowed to have a banner supported account and a posting account?

Can I switch between both?

i think djbob is the man you're looking for...

What was the first you game you played?

 

I think mine was mario brothers, at my friends home.

it's been so long that it's hard to remember...but i think it might have been Q-Bert on Atari...haha, old school...

I'm fifteen! Anyways what I was saying if you don't believe in genetics you are RETARDED.

 

let's say you have a box with absolutely nothing in it...no chemicals, no UV light, no atoms, no air...nothing...now tell me, can something spontaneously generate inside the box?

 

I can not answer that answer, because its not known, but there may of never been a void. I believe the answer to that question is that there never was an empty box with nothing inside it.

the universe was never empty. it has always been and will always be. the same as god is supposed to have always been.

to understand basic infinity just look at common mathematics, pi is a good example of infinity as is 10 divided by 3 (3.33333 recurring). infinity is everywhere. Now answer this question,

 

 

let's say you have a box with absolutely nothing in it.. no god, no angels, no spirits...now nothing...now tell me, can something spontaneously generate(such as god) inside the box?

interesting...what you're saying is that there might not have been a beginning to our universe...but maybe you're not thinking back in time far enough...with all my experiences as a human being, it's extremely difficult for me to believe that something can come from nothing...i'm not saying it's impossible...i'm just saying that it's extremely difficult to believe...

also, maybe i should have gone with "higher power" instead of god, like Richard did...i believe if there was a box with absolutely nothing in it, it would take some higher power to create something in it...it seems almost too obvious that something won't just spontaneously generate inside a totally empty box unless there was some type of intervention...

I think there is a movie with Jim Carrie were he is in a huge dome that simulates the real world, all the people, including his wife were actors.(He grew up their) and the corp. aired his life, that got me to thinking.

I have the same question sometimes.

But if you have the same question, we both should be real tongue.gif

 

That or you could just be saying that to make us think our life was real, though I think its highly unlikely.

you're thinking of The Truman Show...a good movie!

Check out the atom boy section. I have explained a lot there.

 

P.S. I need to if you believe in evolution, becuase it would be quite pointless to debate if you did.

i responded to your post in the atom boy section...

and have you ever looked into the intelligent design argument?

i don't think it matters if you believe in evolution or not to have a debate...especially this debate...my main argument is that it doesn't matter how life is evolving or how it evolved in the past...there MUST have been someone or something that created what led to everything that is today...

i'd also like to add that this debate could go on forever since neither of us can be disproved...it's just that the theory you're trying to convince me into believing doesn't have a logical beginning...

torrents are illegal here in thailand...they've blocked basically every torrent site there is...

 

(anyone know a workaround? heh heh)

 

there isnt a way around that. they most likely using your ip address as an identifier, which states that you are from thailand. erhh go, you can not bypass your originating ip address

thanks for the help...although i am feeling sad and hopeless now...

ah well, i still have limewire! haha, not as great, but good enough for now i guess...