What Language

[pelytig]

I am just entering the world of programming. What language should I start with, Python, C ++ or BASIC?

[meriadoc]

There is already a thread started on programming languages. Check out http://www.helionet.org/index/index.php?showtopic=2282

[Sungazer]

python is scripting, basic is useless, and while c++ is incredibly powerful its also incredibly complex and deep

[karthiflash]

as the developments are diffrent in catogories and depends on various costs it is a difficult q?

 

 

u should go with some popular like microsoft..........

[CriBaby]

The easiest of those languages, by far, to learn is BASIC. Don't listen to the others that say that basic is useless. First of all, it's super easy to learn on and it helps develop your mind to think like a programmer. If you do anything with circuit boards BASIC is easy to impliment and files are generally small. In my computer class in high school we designed an alarm system using BASIC and a series of LEDs and speakers with a circuit board so we knew when the principal was coming. The teacher helped us!

 

If you want a language that will be most beneficial down the road, learn a .net language. Most of the languages are very similar now and easy to transfer back and forth. And they're becoming the standard.

[AverageJoe]

I'm sorry, but you should disregard everything the above person said. BASIC is a horrible language, and I suggest you steer clear of it.

 

I started out with python, which is a great language to teach you OOP (a paradigm most modern programming languages are based off). It also allows you to take full use of commenting and making clean/readable code.

 

I know use python to do misc. things around my desktop. I use it to write scripts that help me manage my code for other projects I work on as well as to automate a few tasks. I use c++ now so I can make use of the compiled language which is much faster than any interpreted language.

 

I also suggest that you stay away from anything that is platform dependent, ie the .NET framework. Of course your going to need to make some things platform dependent, but you should be able to write code which can compile and run on any platform. This will allow you to take full use of many of the open source tools and libraries out there.

 

 

Joe

 

EDIT: I forgot my favorite place to send people for comparisons. wiki's comparison of <insert item here>. Wiki's comparison of programming languages

[Sungazer]

Wow, I was trying to think of a polite way to phrase that Joe, thanks for saving me the trouble.

I agree with just about everything you just said. Though I dont believe that python is the best

language to start out with, but I do agree it is an excellent OOP language.

[CriBaby]

I didn't say that BASIC was practical. I said that it was easy to use and taught you how to think like a programmer. I also gave an example of a use for BASIC. How can you disagree with an example? Or the fact that it's easy to learn?

 

As far as staying away from .net, most companies are starting to go to .net so telling someone to stay away from that would be silly. Yes, it's platform dependent. I don't like framework stuff at all but I still see a clear need for people who know how to use the languages. There are many companies willing to pay for that kind of knowledge. Not saying that python is a useless language or that people won't pay for it but it's much more likely to get a job with .net expertise. So again, what is there to disagree about?

 

The only part where I guess you can disagree on is where you would say that BASIC is a bad language to start on. Sure, there are other languages you could start on but BASIC is a very generic and easy to understand language. It doesn't get any easier than that.

[AverageJoe]

I agree with just about everything you just said. Though I dont believe that python is the best

I didn't state that is the best, just that it is good. Perl is a good alternative to python. If your looking to delve into a bit of a harder language, java might be viable as well.

 

I didn't say that BASIC was practical.

Then why did you mention it. I could tell him about a plethora of things which are not practical.

 

First of all, it's super easy to learn on and it helps develop your mind to think like a programmer.

Whether it helps you to think like a programmer or an idiot is debatable I suppose.

 

How can you disagree with an example?

I disagree with the idea of the sample. You can use many languages for the example you stated.

 

There are many companies willing to pay for that kind of knowledge.

There are companies willing to pay people for almost all types of knowledge.

 

Not saying that python is a useless language or that people won't pay for it but it's much more likely to get a job with .net expertise.

 

I'm not suggesting to learn python for a job (even though it's a growing language), I'm suggesting it to learn the OO programming paradigm. C/C++ would be the best for the sake of getting a job.

 

Sure, there are other languages you could start on but BASIC is a very generic and easy to understand language. It doesn't get any easier than that.

There are other languages to start out with, and many of them would be better than basic. And whether or not it could be any easier is also debatable.

 

Joe

[CriBaby]

I'm not suggesting to learn python for a job (even though it's a growing language), I'm suggesting it to learn the OO programming paradigm. C/C++ would be the best for the sake of getting a job.

 

C++.net is a framework language. I know there is a difference between C++ and C++.net, but everything that has .net will eventually only be supported that way.

 

Aside from that, practicality has nothing to do with learning. You don't use pseudo code because it's practical. You use it to sort your ideas. It's an unnecessary but sometimes useful step. Same with flowcharts. They aren't practical in the long run. Way too much going on. But they have their purposes. QBASIC is about learning. That's what most colleges start their novice programmers on. That, Pascal, or some other very generic language.

 

Whether it would be your first pick is opinion. I learned on BASIC and I found it to be very useful. Sometimes to be a programmer you have to think like an idiot to make it idiot proof. But, enough about this. You have very valid points and I have better things to do than to argue about whether BASIC still has its uses so I'll shut up now.

[Ashoat]

I also suggest that you stay away from anything that is platform dependent, ie the .NET framework. Of course your going to need to make some things platform dependent, but you should be able to write code which can compile and run on any platform. This will allow you to take full use of many of the open source tools and libraries out there.

That logic doesn't make sense. Let me break it down:

First, you say you should make code that can compile and run on any platform. Why? What if your target contains only Windows users? What do you have to gain from platform independence? Generally, platform independent languages run far slower (case in point: Java) because of their constraints.

 

Second, what is so great about being able to utilize open source tools and libraries? What if the open source tools and libraries are worse than the closed source ones? While open source development can result in great applications and platforms, just being open source is not much of a merit.

 

Whether it helps you to think like a programmer or an idiot is debatable I suppose.

BASIC is really not that different from C-based languages. Have you ever used it? It has a less intuitive syntax, more limits, and is generally less robust but I really don't see how BASIC makes you think like an idiot.

 

A programming language makes you think based on its design style, ie. Java makes you think object oriented and C makes you think procedurally. BASIC is procedural as well; therefore, you can learn to think like a procedural programmer through its use.

 

Why do you say that BASIC makes people think like idiots?

[Diggsey]

I know both BASIC, VB.net, C++ and C++.net, and if you are an absolute beginner, VB.net is the best thing to use. When you get used to programming, and need to write things for speed or for other platforms, then you should learn C++. (Most people who have never programmed before will just be completely deterred by seeing a piece of C++ code, where a piece of BASIC code is more likely to make them keep wanting to learn. Although .net is slow and platform dependant, when you are still learning or when speed isn't an issue, it takes away all the tediousness of programming.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that different languages have different purposes. Saying one is useless just shows that you haven't learnt to use it properly.

[CriBaby]

I also suggest that you stay away from anything that is platform dependent, ie the .NET framework. Of course your going to need to make some things platform dependent, but you should be able to write code which can compile and run on any platform. This will allow you to take full use of many of the open source tools and libraries out there.

That logic doesn't make sense. Let me break it down:

First, you say you should make code that can compile and run on any platform. Why? What if your target contains only Windows users? What do you have to gain from platform independence? Generally, platform independent languages run far slower (case in point: Java) because of their constraints.

 

Second, what is so great about being able to utilize open source tools and libraries? What if the open source tools and libraries are worse than the closed source ones? While open source development can result in great applications and platforms, just being open source is not much of a merit.

 

Whether it helps you to think like a programmer or an idiot is debatable I suppose.

BASIC is really not that different from C-based languages. Have you ever used it? It has a less intuitive syntax, more limits, and is generally less robust but I really don't see how BASIC makes you think like an idiot.

 

A programming language makes you think based on its design style, ie. Java makes you think object oriented and C makes you think procedurally. BASIC is procedural as well; therefore, you can learn to think like a procedural programmer through its use.

 

Why do you say that BASIC makes people think like idiots?

 

Hey! Thanks for backing me up, djbob. And for a second I thought I was speaking out my rear. (Perhaps I still was, but knowing that someone thinks the same way I do still makes me feel better).

[Ashoat]

I know both BASIC, VB.net, C++ and C++.net, and if you are an absolute beginner, VB.net is the best thing to use. When you get used to programming, and need to write things for speed or for other platforms, then you should learn C++. (Most people who have never programmed before will just be completely deterred by seeing a piece of C++ code, where a piece of BASIC code is more likely to make them keep wanting to learn. Although .net is slow and platform dependant, when you are still learning or when speed isn't an issue, it takes away all the tediousness of programming.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that different languages have different purposes. Saying one is useless just shows that you haven't learnt to use it properly.

Between those languages I would agree that BASIC is the best to start with, but have you considered scripting languages? Those generally are easier even than BASIC.

[Diggsey]

I know both BASIC, VB.net, C++ and C++.net, and if you are an absolute beginner, VB.net is the best thing to use. When you get used to programming, and need to write things for speed or for other platforms, then you should learn C++. (Most people who have never programmed before will just be completely deterred by seeing a piece of C++ code, where a piece of BASIC code is more likely to make them keep wanting to learn. Although .net is slow and platform dependant, when you are still learning or when speed isn't an issue, it takes away all the tediousness of programming.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that different languages have different purposes. Saying one is useless just shows that you haven't learnt to use it properly.

Between those languages I would agree that BASIC is the best to start with, but have you considered scripting languages? Those generally are easier even than BASIC.

 

I have, but actually when you think about it, you can do a lot of things in VB.net without even touching the keyboard (thanks to the form designer with which you can set properties and create events by clicking!). Also, VB.net has the best IDE I know of (VS). As well as that, scripting languages often use some odd syntax which can be confusing.

 

(Btw, when I mentioned those languages, they're not the only ones I know, just the ones that seemed relevent )