Who got the begining of the world right?

[jneves4pt]

if it was the big bang how the f@ck did life survive?

 

Hahahahaha!

Life came a lot of time after...

 

Btw there is more theories, not just the Big Bang theory (I just know their name in Portuguese :/ ).

Scientists are now trying to find a particle that was created during the Big Bang, if they find it they prove that Big Bang happened.

I think people who think God made everything are kinda dumb for thinking that :S , sorry

[rmartins]

[Krydos]

I believe science can explain everything... eventually.

 

Maybe religion does have a tinge of truth to it. Like Maybe 'god' is just some highly evolved alien that was experimenting with RNA/DNA like a kid might experiment with an ant farm, and likewise this god might not really pay much attention to us because how interesting are ants really? Maybe you could watch them for a few minutes, but they basically just do the same things over and over just like humanity. If this theory turns out to be true maybe once we have evolved sufficiently to have a real conversation with god everything will make a lot more sense.

 

Religion and science aren't opposites or enemies like a lot of people make them out to be. We just need to explore our world with both our faith and our intelligence and I believe eventually science and religion can become one. I just think religion is a simpler way of explaining the world. There are so many unknowns out there that people could easily just get too terrified to move and just hide under a rock like rabbit or something. Religion was just a mental crutch for people to feel like there was something out there watching over them, or that everything happens for a purpose, or death isn't the end. Humanity is still very young and childlike and as we mature as a global community our beliefs and knowledge will mature with us.

 

Just my silly opinion.

[Brother Hassan]

Assalamu Alaikum [ Peace Be Upon You All ]

I'm your friendly local forum Muslim & I really like this discussion

 

Well by your criteria a Muslim cannot take either side As Muslims we believe that the Universe came into existence by the big bang which occurred by the Command of Allah/God

 

The Qur'an ( the holy book of Muslims ) predicted the big band 1400 years ago

Here is an interesting article for all

Do those who disbelieve not see that the heavens and the earth were sewn together and then We unstitched them and that We made from water every living thing? So will they not believe? (Qur'an, 21:30)

 

The word "ratq" translated as "sewn to" means "mixed in each, blended" in the Arabic vernacular. It is used to refer to two different substances that make up a whole. The phrase "we unstitched" is the verb "fataqa" in Arabic and implies that something comes into being by tearing apart or destroying the structure of things that are sewn to one another. The sprouting of a seed from the soil is one of the actions to which this verb is applied.

 

Let us take a look at the verse again. In the verse, sky and earth are at first subject to the status of "ratq." They are separated (fataqa) with one coming out of the other. Intriguingly, when we think about the first moments of the Big Bang, we see that the entire matter of the universe collected at one single point. In other words, everything-including "the heavens and earth" which were not created yet-were in an interwoven and inseparable condition. Then, this point exploded violently, causing its matter to disunite.

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_05.html

Waiting for your reply

Hassan The Muslim

[Apate]

Well I tend to agree with those that say there is way to many intricacies for the earth to be created by chance, let alone all the life within in it. The more we learn from science, I believe that the more it reinforces intellegent design.

 

Actually there is a scientific theory that proposes a multi-verse which would have an infinite amount of Universes. If this theory turns out to be correct, it means we just happen to be in one of the Universes that evolved to support life. There would be countless others that were created without an environment sustainable to life. Such as one with more gravity, one with less, etc. This theory completely negates the need for divine creation.

[Brother Hassan]

[i7Grendel]

Yeah but the multi-verse theories lack any empirical evidence. They lack empirical testability and are unfalsifiable; they are thus outside the methodology of scientific investigation to confirm or disprove. Most multi-verse theories state that the parallel universes are in a different spacetime framework, so in principle they cannot be observed.

 

But even if the theory is correct, the question is who caused the different universes to exist ? You just can't have universes popping up by themselves can you. In Islamic theology, God's will is what defines the nature of things & perhaps God willed to create multiple universes in order to create one that could support life. The concept of parallel universes has existed in Islamic theology,

Religions tell people a cause for everything: God. These gods are explained using undeniable yet unrelatable and incomprehensible evidence. Just like... infinity. Suppose, infinite universes exist, which have been there for an infinite time and will be there for an infinite time. This would nullify the need for a creator, because everything was already there. But what about the Big Bang you say? Just one of the many ups and downs in the daily infinite of a universe. Although this is more or less a "turtles all the way down" philosophy, this sounds just as probable as any religion in my view.

[Brother Hassan]

If there are infinite number of universes that have existed from an infinite time than we wouldn't be here. For the big bang to occur, it would have taken an infinite period of time since the universe would have existed for an infinite number of years even before the big bang.

[Krydos]

Perhaps the big bang is countered by a big contract? A cyclical process where the universe expands until it reaches a maximum size and then it contracts back down to a single point creating the next big bang, and it just keeps going on destroying everything and recreating everything over and over towards infinity.

[Brother Hassan]

Perhaps the big bang is countered by a big contract? A cyclical process where the universe expands until it reaches a maximum size and then it contracts back down to a single point creating the next big bang, and it just keeps going on destroying everything and recreating everything over and over towards infinity.

Again that would make our existence impossible

For it would take an infinite amount of time for our big bang ( the one that made us ) to have occurred. Since Big bangs would have been happening from eternity, the time before our big bang would be infinite & our existence impossible.

[Krydos]

Again that would make our existence impossible

Um, why? It's just a random theory. Obviously there is no way to know for sure how everything works. That's why it's so much fun to make up theories creating a *possible* explanation for the (currently) explainable. This is the history of everything we know as a sentient species. There was a time in history where we didn't understand lightning so primitive humanity accredited it to angry gods throwing thunderbolts around and judging "bad" people. There was a time where we didn't understand the night sky so we made up theories about the Earth being at the center of a crystalline shell rotating around us and the stars were the souls of our heroic dead or whatever. As soon as we discover the way things actually work these old silly theories are discarded and they live on as interesting myths (if they live on at all.)

For it would take an infinite amount of time for our big bang ( the one that made us ) to have occurred.

Ok, you're welcome to make up your own theories just as I did, but in my theory each big bang to big contract cycle is a finite amount of time. It may be several trillion years or whatever but it is finite, and it does eventually repeat.

Since Big bangs would have been happening from eternity, the time before our big bang would be infinite & our existence impossible.

Are you saying then that since each big bang to big contract cycle is infinite already there can't be more than one cycle? That's correct because infinity is immeasurable and infinity plus infinity is undefinable just as you can't divide by zero.

 

Maybe to become a god an entity simply needs to develop enough technology or whatever to escape the death/rebirth process and travel in some high tech ship or state of consciousness outside the grasp of the crushing gravitational forces drawing all the matter and energy in the universe down to single point? If they were evolved enough to accomplish that I would say "god" is a good word to describe something so awe-inspiring.

 

Anyways, it's all just a silly theory. I suspect that when we actually find out the truth (if we survive long enough) it will be unlike pretty much anything we have managed to imagine.

[Brother Hassan]

Um, why?

Because if Big Bangs have been happening forever, that it would take forever for our Big Bang to have happened

[Krydos]

Um, why?

Because if Big Bangs have been happening forever, that it would take forever for our Big Bang to have happened

I should have known better than try to logically discuss anything. I usually have better sense than to respond to anything involving religion. Thank you for the booster shot in my philosophy of "ignoring it until it goes away."

[Brother Hassan]

[Krydos]

By that same logic the number 3 doesn't exist because there are an infinite number of integers (-∞ to +∞) and each number can't exist unless the number one less than it also exists. So 3 can only exist if 2 exists and 2 can only exist if 1 exists and 0 can only exist if -1 exists and -1 can only exist if -2 exists.... etc.