is there a God?

[Person]

I thought of this yesterday.

I was hit by a car.... My bikes back rim was bent. ($250) I was thinking "Thanke god I wasn't hurt to bad in the hail that was falling like rocks". Than, I said,"why would a god allow me to even suffer a loss?"

 

I see and hear no god.

[AverageJoe]

How do you guys know that we have a soul? You probably literally think that we should think with our hearts instead of our heads to? fyi your heart can't think, it's a figure of speech that means something more like think with your more emotional side(which is also a figure of speech, but I don't fell like getting into the chemistry of the brain). We have a mind that wants us to continue on for as long as possible, so yes eternally sounds quite nice to us.

djbob has already stated(I think) that he has blind faith. Blind faith is the sole reason religion will never completely go away. That and apathy will continue the idiotic beliefs in religion. You can tell how it is carrying it right now, as the atheist population is greatly increasing. People will always be able to deny indisputable evidence against it. For example we get a time machine, travel back in time and prove religion wrong, they will say it's not real and it was just an allusion. Thats what they're saying about evolution right now. It will just never end.

[Elivmar]

I agree with you on some parts, about people being closed minded and not accepting evidence. Although when you think about it, by denying it arn't you also being closed minded? There isn't any HARD evidence to support that God doesn't exist. Some people will say miracles are random chance while others say it's an act of God. Sure we all hope that there is eternal life, so people could use that to say we made up God to appease our senses, however that doesn't mean there isn't. Even if you did travel back in time, would you be able to check every religion? We know for a fact that Jesus was real, but not if he was really God's son. So what if you found him? How would you know? What if he turned out to not be God's son? Then the Jews can argue their point? What about Hindu? Budhism? Muslim? And the countless other religions. No one will probally ever be able to fully prove toward or against religion. I truly want to believe in God, but I still have doubts and I still wonder, such is human nature.

[AverageJoe]

I am not closed minded, as I believed in god for many years(the christian one) I've even read the quaran and studied quite a bit of budism such as the four noble truths and the eight fold path. I really wanted to believe that when I die that I get to go someplace better. Now I do not as I learned more about the religions and their beliefs. Such as Christianity's thought of heaven being a place where you worship god 100% of the time. Buddism that you stay on the Earth until you no longer have any wants, then you die. Or hinduism, that you just stay here forever. I found all of those ideas quite idiotic.

[Elivmar]

I agree with a lot of the points you make. None of the ends sound all that great. But does that mean their 100% accurate? One has to assume that God(which ever one there is) isn't so closed minded himself to accept those who only follow the exact religion he wants. There's hundreds of religions, very few people would go to the afterlife if The God only accepted those who believe in the correct religion. I think of religion a lot as a game of telephone, over the years the story gets warped althouh when played correctly, the major point stays.

[Zarkyun Leighvyn]

ok, I don't feel like being in a debate right now(partly because I'm unprepared and I'd probably be proven wrong a hundred times over without a comeback)

 

Here is my favorite theory(it may sound familiar to some):

 

Ok, consider this, A watch doesn't appear just out nowhere, it had to be made by a watchmaker.

Same goes for a house, tv, internet, and all that good stuff.

So I believe that man must have a creator for the same reasons.

[AverageJoe]

LOL guess your about to meet me!

 

Who made a rock?

who made rain?

who made chicken?(not the food)

who made iron?

who made gold?

Not a man we shaped it

not a man we made it a drink

not a man we made it a food

not a man we made it a weapon

not a man we made it jewelry

So yes people can make stuff. But we haven't made most diamonds, a natural cause made them. Just like the universe, the big bang made it.

[wwe9112]

I believe there is but heres my question. On the news a few weeks or so ago they where saying that they found a new "Earth" and its newer than our quite newer if I'm not mistaking. Well In the Bible it says he created the earth and heavens.. well if you dig deeper Earth is heaven once the end times come all the "Sinners" will bee sent to you know where and we will all be in the new Jerusalem(Sp) I may be wrong on what I'm saying please Don't rant me I'm still a kid. But back to my point I wonder if he made that Earth or if they have a different God or nothing at all.. or maybe the same one. So you really can't say there isn't because the BIG BOOM sounds a bit dumb to me and so does the whole GOD created everything as well but its a bit more bealiveable IMO.

[AverageJoe]

I wish that I had a clue of about a third of what you just typed. Did you just bang your fingers randomly on the keyboard and then click post? Anyways the big "bang" theory is very plausible. They have done a plethora of research dealing with it, and have found some quite remarkable finds. I do however think that they still have a long ways to go. But in time I do think something similar to the big bang will be proven to be the cause of the universe.

With infinite amount of time, comes infinite amount of possibilities. So therefore everyone at one time or another was right lol.

[Andrey]

awsomejoe, it seems like you completely despise the idea of a God, and all that you believe in is the scientific way of life.

 

I was reading all your posts, and I would like to explain/tell you and reply to each one of your questions/statements.

 

First of all you stated that:

 

Well not from god, the bible says that god made Adam and Eve out of dust, not evolution.

Now some questions I have for you.

Do you believe that god said let there be light and the sun appeared?

Why does God allow events like Katrina to happen?

If god was so perfect, why did he create everything to be imperfect.

If god controls everything, why would he send his only son down to Earth for the sins that he made us do?

If god is all powerful why doesn't he make it to where we can"t sin?

 

Yes I do beleive that god said let there be light and the sun appeared. I beleive that becuase God is all powerful, he can do anything. Now what you are probably thinking is why he let Katrina happen then. He let it happen as a sign. He wanted it to happen. It was a punishment for our sins. He knows everything. He knows what will happen and when it will happen. He knows when you will die he knows what you are doing right now. He knows what I am doing right now. He is everywhere.

 

Now moving on to the next statement. You say why did he create everything to be imperfect. He didn't create anything to be imperfect. If when you say imperfect you mean things like a person dieing in a car crash, or a person wrecking their car in a car crash, or that you cant get a girlfriend, or your fighting with your wife. Those things happen for a reason, and God lets those things happen.

 

If a person dies in a car crash then that means their time has come. God has a time for everybody to die. He knows when everybody will die. Including me and you. I might die tomorrow, maybe even when I walk out my door. I don't know, but what I do know is that when I die I will go up to heaven and God will ask me what I have done in my life. That is why, I life everyday to the fullest.

 

If a person gets his car broken or destroyed, that might be to help him. I have a friend who lived in an apartment building. The building burned down before he was about to move out of it to a new house. His car burned down also. His car was very old and was already breaking down. He didn't have enough money to buy a new one, because he was saving for a house. He had insurance on the car, and he got a brand new Honda Accord. Now he has a new house and a new car.

 

Same goes for everything else that you might think is imperfect.

 

Next you say that he made us do sins. He didn't make us do sins. YOU committed your sins, it was your fault. I committed my sins, it was my fault. God sends us tests, to see how we will do. For example, you see a beautiful women, and you lust after her. God didn't make you lust. He tested you and you lusted. It was YOUR fault, not Gods. Also he doesn't want to make it so we cant sin. If we cant sin how will God know if we believe in him or we don't. How, when we die, will he test us to see if we should got to heaven or hell.

 

I just repeated pretty much everything djbob said, but more specifically.

 

That should answers those questions/statements.

 

Also, you keep talking about how the Bible was created.

 

You say it was a created by a bunch of politicians and that it is a fairytale.

 

What I would like to say is this:

 

1. That the original copy of the bible still exists.

2. 70% of the Bible happened

3. It was written by God through people

4. The Bible predicted things that happened maybe like 2 years ago. It didn't predict things that just happened in 100 A.D. It still says what will happen after 2007.

 

The bible does not record, it simply stated events that already happened. The bible wasn't made until around 400 A.D. So of course it could have "predicted" what happened in 100A.D. If you look at the bible I would like to enlighten you on how it was written. I will show you a bible I............I mean god wrote.

 

 

The Bible II

 

 

I am god and I made the all-powerful Joe! He made all the [bleeped!] everywhere. He is why you will not be punished so worship him by going to his site(which benefits me!) I god like for you to go to his site. Now on the date 9/11 a great tragedy will happen, it will be called 9/11! Two planes will fly into these two massive structures. Then the americas will fo to war with Iraq. Though you must still proceed toe visit my site to worship me! The end will come some day, and I will send Joe to save teh people who believe in me.

 

Written by the deciple of god, bob, and god himself in 1950.

 

Wow I must of created the universe, it says so!

 

Here you make up your own version. What I would like to ask you is this, what will happen at the end of the world? What will happen tomorrow? What will happen in 2008??? You talked about things that have already happened.

 

Also you mention us evolving from apes. What I would like to say is this, why aren't the apes today like us??? What happened. Why did the apes stop evolving??? Or if the apes have already evolved why are their apes that are still here? If apes evolved already into us why are there more of them left over?

 

That is all I have to say. What else I would like to say to you awsomejoe, is for you to stop critisizing and abusing everybody replying to your posts. You have said something bad about every person defending God in this forum. Here is oner person that just said he/she believes in god:

 

He/She said:

 

Hmm...

I think God is real.

 

You answered her/him like this:

That was real informative!

So you do you believe in the fictional sacred text of Christianity to?

Or do you think that heaven is a never ending land of ice cream and extremely hot babes?

If your Christian its obvious that you believe you will worship for for eternity, since that is what your fictional sacred text says.

and for all of you Christians out there WHY ARE YOU ON THE COMPUTER? Stop sinning, it clearly says in the bible itself that though shall live the simplest of lives and though shalt not have idles. So if you have been on the computer more than you have been with god you, as they say in my town, are going to rot in hell were the devil will? make you listen to michael jakson! sad.gif

 

He/She then said this:

 

you offend me! D:

 

You abuse the person even more by saying this:

 

Don't spam on the debate forum.

 

 

I offend you, do you know how many times I'm offended by Christians everyday, just because I don;t believe in a fairytale.

Have you watched the video I posted a link to, or did you just simply post here to get helions? Do you believe in the bible? If you are going to post, at least make it something that I can really reply to.

 

And what I would like to say about people offending you everyday. They probably do that because you immediately jump upon them like you did to every person defending God in this forum.

 

So, stop abusing/criticizing every person that defends god, or even posts something in this forum.

 

In conclusion, awsomejoe get more info on the bible, read it all the way to the end, read it twice to understand it, and then you can come back and actually start saying something about God. You have no right to say anything against God unless you know your facts, which you obviously don't.

 

Thank-you,

Andrey

 

P.S. I would like to apologize if I repeated any ideas twice or three times, or if some of my grammar was wrong or incorrect. I was in a rush and didn't have time to reread what I wrote.

[AverageJoe]

LOL, first off I do not usually voice my dislike of the belief in some all powerful dude to people in my school. I do however let them know that I am an atheist, or really agnostic. I have recently come to the conclusion that everyone is right in every single aspect of their entire religion unless that they touch on the basis of it relating to infinity. Their is an infinite amount of time in this world, so their are infinite possibilities. The fact that god has been here for infinity is the reason I must greatly discredit it. Now to my fundy counter-bashing. I usually go off on people on the net because so many people that live in my area bash on me being atheist, so I just return the favor lol. It's not that I'm not a kind person, many people think that I am a great kid, just the people who are prejudice to atheists are the ones who I don't sit well with. And I find it fun. Go to www.isohunt.com and bring up god there and see what they say to you.

I truly do not mean to offend you in any way, but if I do O well. lol srry

Now to my counter argument

Why did god put these tests here for us. Why would he make a universe that it is possible to sin in. He pretty much put an apple on the table and said if you eat it you will be [bleeped!] for eternity, f#$% you.

All I'm saying is that I don't get when they say "think god for saving me" when it was god who nearly got them killed in the first place. Thats like me shooting you, the fixing your wound, and you be like thinks for fixing my wound and saving my life. Would you say that then? Or would you be pissed that I shot you in the first place. [sarcasm, not literal, I would never shoot anyone, unless they harmed someone]

 

You say it was a created by a bunch of politicians and that it is a fairytale.

 

What I would like to say is this:

 

1. That the original copy of the bible still exists.

2. 70% of the Bible happened

3. It was written by God through people

4. The Bible predicted things that happened maybe like 2 years ago. It didn't predict things that just happened in 100 A.D. It still says what will happen after 2007.

 

WOW you affectively said nothing to disprove my argument lol.

The bible was wrote in the 400th century, so it's just so amazing that it predicted what would happen in the 100th century. That was the point of my "bible."

EDIT: I would also like to add, my bible was 100% percent correct. And the "bible" is 30% a lie. LOL I know thats a bit of a hyperbole.

 

Now does your bible predict

Here you make up your own version. What I would like to ask you is this, what will happen at the end of the world? What will happen tomorrow? What will happen in 2008??? You talked about things that have already happened.

?

 

Also you mention us evolving from apes. What I would like to say is this, why aren't the apes today like us??? What happened. Why did the apes stop evolving??? Or if the apes have already evolved why are their apes that are still here? If apes evolved already into us why are there more of them left over?

Their are apes like us today, actually 99% like us, their the apes you see. They are genetically 99% a like us. Why can't we see many variations? We can, we have Asians, Africans, Indians, etc. We are in the same sub species so we can have fertile offspring. Why don't we look like apes? We do have some similar features, but at some point of time our genetic make up became different enough that we could no longer have fertile offspring, and soon after offspring at all.

EX. Horse and Donkey can have unfertile offspring

Why didn't all apes evolve at the same exact time? They did, just in different directions. We also have different sub-species of apes as well.

 

And what I would like to say about people offending you everyday. They probably do that because you immediately jump upon them like you did to every person defending God in this forum.

 

So, stop abusing/criticizing every person that defends god, or even posts something in this forum.

 

answered in preamble

P.S. I would like to apologize if I repeated any ideas twice or three times, or if some of my grammar was wrong or incorrect. I was in a rush and didn't have time to reread what I wrote.

Same here. But you should check out a spell checker add-on for FF, I just got it and it works great for when your in a rush to just get some good spelling down.

 

Try giving your argument to these guys http://isohunt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...&highlight=

They will bash you so badly, and you think I'm bad, these are the guys that I learned from.

[wwe9112]

Why are you such a prick, the big bang is the most dumbest thing in the world. Come on seriously, even if there was a big bang what made the big bang happen. Heres my theory

 

God said it and a BANG it happen!!

 

I'm you have the right to believe what you want, but when God(Jesus) does come back for the 2nd coming, you will regret, and if your living like there is no God you better be right. I'm not a religious person, but I do pray to gods, and ask for help and thank him for where I am to day even as a 13 year old.

[AverageJoe]

Well I don't mind "non-religious" Christians. But I do hate it when christians "radicals" make claims such as global warming being stupid, that it is simply a conspiracy, and that even if it is true it wouldn't matter because the all mighty is going to come and destroy the Earth and slaughter most of mankind anyways.

But I would like to ask you christians some questions.[i will try not to bash your answers, this is out of pure curiosity].

Pleas tell me if I have any info on this mixed up as I'm not a christian, and do not debate about it.

Are you pre-destination or whatever the other one is called. djbob will probably know.

I learned all this from a 18 christian who I hung out with in church. So i'm not sure on it's varasity.

I know very little of it, but from my childhood what I remember of it was that pre-destination was that god has pre-determined the christians in the universe. EX:

Person A WILL become a christian

Person B WILL NOT become a christian.

and the other one is the opposite of it.

Hopefully djbob will help me better understand this common debate amongst christians.

If any of you guys know of it please inform me.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Joe

[Quantum Media LLC]

i agree and thats what i was told that God knows what each and one of us will do and he knows what we will all do

[AverageJoe]

Yes, but is it that he knows what we will all do, or has he kind of "pre-determined" what we will do?

I believe that everything will happen in an eternal universe with infinite time. except things that toy with eternity (god) lol

but really please inform me on your opinion on this matter. I will keep my replys to a minimum of critisism, as I do wish to hear your opinions.