What Language

[Ashoat]

you can do a lot of things in VB.net without even touching the keyboard (thanks to the form designer with which you can set properties and create events by clicking!).

But you're not learning anything that way.

[AverageJoe]

First, you say you should make code that can compile and run on any platform. Why? What if your target contains only Windows users? What do you have to gain from platform independence?

You do have me there. If your using some sort of api which is platform dependent (which I myself am doing right now as I'm on a dev team for a HL2MP mod).

 

Generally, platform independent languages run far slower (case in point: Java) because of their constraints.

Generally, with the exception of the .net framework and assembly, most programming languages are platform dependent. I could compile the same c++/c/java/python/perl/etc code on a plethora of platforms and they will all work just fine.

 

Second, what is so great about being able to utilize open source tools and libraries? What if the open source tools and libraries are worse than the closed source ones?

What if the open source libraries are better?

 

BASIC is really not that different from C-based languages.

c++, however, is now heavily relying on object oriented programming.

 

It has a less intuitive syntax, more limits, and is generally less robust but I really don't see how BASIC makes you think like an idiot.

Did I not say it was debatable?

Also the backing community for BASIC has been lacking.

 

A programming language makes you think based on its design style, ie. Java makes you think object oriented and C makes you think procedurally. BASIC is procedural as well; therefore, you can learn to think like a procedural programmer through its use.

I think it would be much better to learn object oriented languages as they seem to be the modern trend.

 

Why do you say that BASIC makes people think like idiots?

Because I completely despise the language and wanted to initiate false propaganda.

[Kyougi]

QBASIC is about learning. That's what most colleges start their novice programmers on. That, Pascal, or some other very generic language.

This would be true if we lived a few years back, but I find that a lot of colleges have moved on and now start off their students with either C or Java.

 

you can do a lot of things in VB.net without even touching the keyboard (thanks to the form designer with which you can set properties and create events by clicking!).

But you're not learning anything that way.

You're learning how to half-[bleeped!] your projects later in life when you're doing this as a career. That's learning something.

 

Second, what is so great about being able to utilize open source tools and libraries? What if the open source tools and libraries are worse than the closed source ones?

Open source libraries are generally cross-platform, sans the obscure libraries. While the target platform card could be played, that's the idea.

[Diggsey]

you can do a lot of things in VB.net without even touching the keyboard (thanks to the form designer with which you can set properties and create events by clicking!).

But you're not learning anything that way.

 

Actually, you are, because it generates the code for you, so you can then see how to do things in code without it.

It teaches you how to create controls, it teaches you about constructors, how to set properties, how to use 'handles' to add event handlers, etc.

[Sungazer]

you can do a lot of things in VB.net without even touching the keyboard (thanks to the form designer with which you can set properties and create events by clicking!).

But you're not learning anything that way.

 

Actually, you are, because it generates the code for you, so you can then see how to do things in code without it.

It teaches you how to create controls, it teaches you about constructors, how to set properties, how to use 'handles' to add event handlers, etc.

 

Be honest, how many people do you think that read the auto generated code and dont and dont already know what its doing are going to go out of there way to look it up?

 

PS: I learned how to program on VB6 lol

[Diggsey]

Well, I used to look at it

 

I learnt to program on VBA

[Ashoat]

Generally, with the exception of the .net framework and assembly, most programming languages are platform dependent. I could compile the same c++/c/java/python/perl/etc code on a plethora of platforms and they will all work just fine.

There's a big difference between the platform independent language Java and the languages that have compilers in most platforms.

 

If you compile Java code, you can run that on Windows, Linux, Mac, UNIX, your cell phone, etc... as long as the platform you are running on has a Java Virtual Machine (JVM).

However, if you want to allow C to work across platforms, life is going to be much harder. Sure, there are compilers for different platforms for C, but each OS has different C libraries. Furthermore, many of these compilers work differently. JVM's all work exactly the same, and Java's libraries are identical across platforms.

 

One of Java's main design goals was to fix the precise problem that previous languages like C created - cross-platform convergence was extremely difficult. I challenge you to compile a complex app written in C on Windows and then on a Mac and see if you get the same result, let alone without any errors.

 

What if the open source libraries are better?

That is often true, and is the generally the only reason I use open source libraries (as well as the only reason I use closed source ones). What I am saying is that you should not choose a library just because it is open source - in most cases, the open-sourceness won't help you that much.

 

c++, however, is now heavily relying on object oriented programming.

Indeed, but that is irrelevant to my point.

 

Did I not say it was debatable?

Your statement seemed pretty sarcastic.

 

Also the backing community for BASIC has been lacking.

There have actually been studies done on this. Check TIOBE's Programming Community Index (the URL seems to be spazzing right now). BASIC generally shows up in the top ten.

 

I think it would be much better to learn object oriented languages as they seem to be the modern trend.

I actually find that many people are programming too "object-oriented" a lot of the time. There needs to be a balance - having to go through like fifteen classes to get the functionality you want isn't very intuitive.

 

Actually, you are, because it generates the code for you, so you can then see how to do things in code without it.

It teaches you how to create controls, it teaches you about constructors, how to set properties, how to use 'handles' to add event handlers, etc.

I do see your point there. When I first tried the Windows Form Designer, I checked the code it generated too. Generally though, the generated code is extremely simplistic - just declaring and instantiating classes, setting some instance variables, and adding some event handlers.