is there a God?

[AverageJoe]

I feel the same exact way, except about you.

Your cult like beliefs are very interesting in the aspect that someone could believe in them.

I am a Atheist n A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.

 

(also spelled Ockham's razor) is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating, or "shaving off", those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae (law of succinctness or parsimony):

 

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem,

 

which translates to:

 

entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.

 

This is often paraphrased as "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest hypothetical entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

 

Originally a tenet of the reductionist philosophy of nominalism, it is more often taken today as a heuristic maxim that advises economy, parsimony, or simplicity in scientific theories. (wiki)

 

This applies to the space time continuum in which we are debating about. It is infinite in all demensions including time. So there for their could be no supreme being before it. Their can't be something before because then the universe wouldn't be infinite.

spacetime is a mathematical model that combines space and time into a single construct called the space-time continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space being three-dimensional and time playing the role of the fourth dimension. According to Euclidean space perception, our universe has three dimensions of space, and one dimension of time. By combining space and time into a single manifold, physicists have significantly simplified a good deal of physical theory, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels.

 

In classical mechanics, the use of spacetime over Euclidean space is optional, as time is independent of mechanical motion in three dimensions. In relativistic contexts, however, time cannot be separated from the three dimensions of space as it depends on an object's velocity relative to the speed of light.

 

The term spacetime has taken on a generalized meaning with the advent of higher-dimensional theories. How many dimensions are needed to describe the universe is still an open question. Speculative theories such as string theory predict 10 or 26 dimensions (With M-theory predicting 11 dimensions, 10 spatial and 1 temporal), but the existence of more than four dimensions would only appear to make a difference at the subatomic level.(wiki)

The space time continuum has been their for infinity("space and duration are one."). It is like your "supreme cause."

 

i could put you in a room with nothing but a bowl and a button on the wall...let's say you had no idea who put you there or why you're there...obviously, you're going to press the button on the wall sooner or later...and when you do, the bowl will fill up with blood...you'll think to yourself, "oh, so when i press this button, the dish will fill with blood.."

 

Well who does that have to relate to the universe?

The universe is the simplest it can be(otcoms razer). It is comprised of 99.9% nothing.

The Uuniverse has been here for infinity and there was never a void. The universe was never created. Though if it was then it wdould have something to do with entropy a measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.

 

Now you still have never given me any proof to credit your theory, just gut feeling.

Now lets progress onward, how do you believe life originated.

 

 

[Helions]

Now you still have never given me any proof to credit your theory, just gut feeling.

Now lets progress onward, how do you believe life originated.

 

first you say that you only believe in logical things...so i try to prove it to you by using logic...you keep asking for evidence, but i've given more than enough in the form of logical arguments...

 

and when you say that something is like my "supreme cause," you're wrong...there's nothing close to being like my supreme cause...if there was, this debate wouldn't have started...no one knows the cause of what is today...it's all theories...but you have to understand that there was obviously a supreme cause....even though we don't know what it is...you can call it whatever you want, but i call the supreme cause, "god..."

[AverageJoe]

O.K. you think that there is logically a "supreme cause," and I think there logically is not a supreme cause. Lets agree to disagree. Now lets move this on to another topic in this matter such as albeginisis, evolution, etc.

[battlelands]

Well gimme proof that there is a good and I'll still not belive you because it's very unlogical...

[Helions]

Well gimme proof that there is a good and I'll still not belive you because it's very unlogical...

 

tell me what you believe

[resin]

first off let me say... this is an explosive topic that rarely goes well in forums

 

I personally have the idea there is a higher power however...

the "supreme cause" logic kinda lacks because it is again something that must have a cause and so on...

Then again...

This could be considered an extension of the Are you real? topic or vice versa,

wouldn't a positive response to either make the other true

"If there is a god then (he/she/it) made you and there for you are real" or

"If you are not real then nothing made you, there is no Creator(God)"

 

Trying to discuss religion logically is mute, religion is based on FEELING one way or another about

a belief or idea. Love, hate, jealousy... there is no logic in FEELINGS.

[AverageJoe]

Thank you at least you have the guts to admit it, I used to feel the same way. There is nothing logical about it, just gut felling. I just have decided to stop following my gut and start following my head.

 

"If there is a god then (he/she/it) made you and there for you are real" or

"If you are not real then nothing made you, there is no Creator(God)"

I know I'm real! And it is very possible that a god didn't create us, I like to think were made of cells.

We have made clones, god didn't create them, are they real or just a figment of our imagination?

[Alghol]

I don't think the important question is, "Is there a God," I think the important question is, "what are the consequences of experiencing God in your life?"

 

There are positives and negatives, I think. Positively a sense of all-encompassing love and being able to tap into that power, to help you through trying times. Negatively a sort of rigidness and closed-mindedness and overreliance upon God, a reluctance to listen to people who don't tap into the samely-defined-God as you "because they couldn't possibly understand."

 

That's oversimplifying things way too much - for instance, some people find more power in not believing in God (their own power feels unlocked somehow), and atheists can be just as closed-minded as devout followers of religion or spirituality.

 

As far as my own beliefs? I think people are innately Godly. I don't know if that means we're able to _connect_ to some outer source (God) or if it's all in our hearts. But I have experienced something special, deep and beautiful in the universe - whether it's "out there" or "in here," I couldn't say.

[AverageJoe]

So do you believe in a god? I think it's retarded when people say they believe in god becuase they fell him. n that case I can say that I fell Harry Potter and that he is real.

 

What do you think about the bible, I know that I mentioned it before but I would like to bring it back up again. It is proven that the bible was written by a bunch of greedy politicians and not god. Some church scholars even say that half of the so-called writters never existed. So how is it any different from believing in a Harry potter book?

[cloggedone]

Hmm...

I think God is real.

[AverageJoe]

Hmm...

I think God is real.

 

That was real informative!

So you do you believe in the fictional sacred text of Christianity to?

Or do you think that heaven is a never ending land of ice cream and extremely hot babes?

If your Christian its obvious that you believe you will worship for for eternity, since that is what your fictional sacred text says.

and for all of you Christians out there WHY ARE YOU ON THE COMPUTER? Stop sinning, it clearly says in the bible itself that though shall live the simplest of lives and though shalt not have idles. So if you have been on the computer more than you have been with god you, as they say in my town, are going to rot in hell were the devil will? make you listen to michael jakson!

[cloggedone]

Hmm...

I think God is real.

 

That was real informative!

So you do you believe in the fictional sacred text of Christianity to?

Or do you think that heaven is a never ending land of ice cream and extremely hot babes?

If your Christian its obvious that you believe you will worship for for eternity, since that is what your fictional sacred text says.

and for all of you Christians out there WHY ARE YOU ON THE COMPUTER? Stop sinning, it clearly says in the bible itself that though shall live the simplest of lives and though shalt not have idles. So if you have been on the computer more than you have been with god you, as they say in my town, are going to rot in hell were the devil will? make you listen to michael jakson!

 

you offend me! D:

[AverageJoe]

Don't spam on the debate forum.

you offend me! D:

I offend you, do you know how many times I'm offended by Christians everyday, just because I don;t believe in a fairytale.

Have you watched the video I posted a link to, or did you just simply post here to get helions? Do you believe in the bible? If you are going to post, at least make it something that I can really reply to.

 

[Kelso]

I recently watched a video (conventional) that tried to bridge the gap between religion and science. What they said was that people, in our social networking, ARE "God". When you actually do the math, it turns out that the inteligence of a single culture is so large that we cannot even use our current standards of inteligence (IQ, etc.) The power of such a network is certainly enough to conjour up the mant theatrical effects displayed in the bible.

 

 

 

As for creation:

There where (and still are!) billions of billions of billions of billions of planets for life to form on, and billions of years for it to evolve on. In addition, there are virtually infinite universes for all this to happen in, so no matter the probability, it is almost guaranteed to have life SOMEWHERE.

 

 

 

 

I, for one, am an athiest. My theory has always been that unless some god or God proved to me that he existed, I would simply leave it up to debate. Science is all about proof. Religion has a sneaky way of getting around it. Personally, I'd stick with science, as long as nobody can dissuade me.

[AverageJoe]

Finally a person with sense! I've never been able to believe the fundys who took the bible serious. Well it wasn't until a few months ago that it was the fundys who had the religion. You see they take the bible as though it were our constitution and written law for the world. Now I think this is extremely ignorant, if not retarded, to do. Two months or so ago I unrealized that the people that only follow the bible, or what ever there fav book is, literally that are actually part of that religion. So you see, if you don't believe the bible word for word then you are not Cristian, you are the cult of a religion that you have come up with. You see I can follow science word for word and get a fairly correct answer for anything I do.

If you look close enough science will explain everything, unless of course you don't have enough info. Science is not physic.